Talk:Guide to a Low BR game
Don't do A Wisdom's Echo until you get Emmy and have 15 units in your group. Those landworms are like the best place to statgrind at low br, linking them in 10-20 will take 3-4 fights to gain 1 BR and you will be looking at 8 stat ups per character after each fight. And these fights will last long enough to beef your arts up. Remember that the bugs respawn quickly so you can rinse and repeat the process for as long as you want. Iluf 01:31, 20 April 2009 (UTC) There's really no point at all in doing this on the PC. The big reason XBox users were so against linking and unnecessary battles was the cap of 3 stat upgrades per battle, which is entirely non existent in the PC. If you link to your heart's content you will still have a powerhouse of a party by the end of the game. PHJF 03:53, 20 April 2009 (UTC) If the community feels that there is no real need for this article to exist, it should be deleted. However, I'm planning to do a massive revision of it, and I'd hate to waste a good couple hours (given the sheer size of it) if it's just going to end up deleted. I'll apply the changes I've made so far, but I'll wait to see if it ends up being deleted or not before I commit any more time to this. Lancelot1 04:45, 23 April 2009 (UTC) I don't really understand why people care so much about the BR, I never watched for it and still beat all enemies (inluding the absolute conqueror but not the lost remnant which just requires too much luck on the XBOX to get the right commands). My final party includes Leucetius, Khrynia and Wyngale and I got all of them beyond BR 130. But aparently there are enough people who want to play on low BR so a guide for that is fine. - Merthos 07:45, 23 April 2009 (UTC) Following this guide on my third or fourth forget which exactly run of the game --PC version-- helped greatly with the parties' stats. However, I had some difficulties early in the game, but still I consider this guide a little diamond. Thank you very much for your time and effort.DarkKanda 12:28, September 3, 2010 (UTC) * Time to revise this whole thingamajig then. Anyone got coffee? PS: I'm running with Tucker who has 1/3rd of Baulson's hp, and I managed to kill Eldritch Dragon.. twice, almost! Lancelot1 08:12, 23 April 2009 (UTC) I'm the one who submitted this guide, made some major updates to it, was wanting to scrap this mainly because some people were against placing personal opinions in guides, which i do not see anything wrong with. But after having afew members from the gaming community request i Update and continue with it, i made some major changes and made it more indepth and easy to follow. For those who wanna help, it would be great to have some cosmetic changes, making it more structured and easy on the eye. I included alot of new information to it, some are related to The Last Remnant Wiki so would be nice if someone could help with linking them to the main articles, eg Mr Diggs (linked to the Morsel Locations) Side Quests (linked to their respective side quests in the main article) to make it more accessible for others. as for the leaders part, i found tat there isnt enough testing / solid proof for it so i removed it to prevent new users from getting misled by it. ShannonKasull Needs Confirmation Linking - I've read many conflicting ideas on linking and how it affects BR. Also read that it's different between XBOX and PC. So either this guide is for the PC or the XBOX if it's going to make a blanket statement about this. Turns - I've done my own test to indicate that turns or perhaps damage taken reduces the amount of BR gain. I've seen no data to indicate that this isn't true. Leaders - Also not seen any conclusive data to support this. That or the difference is too minuscule to be conclusive.Kaply 05:43, 24 April 2009 (UTC) :I haven't read the article since it's quite long, but I can confirm 100% that linking does have effect on xbox, On PC however i'm not so sure, I don't think link have any effect on PC, I've been linking like crazy from the start and I don't notice my stats affect at all. But I can't confirm that since there might be minor difference between linking or not Sarmu 08:17, 24 April 2009 (UTC) * I think it's pretty obvious this guide is meant for PC users. There's even a disclaimer in bold right at the start that says so. Sarmu, do you mean that it has an effect on how quickly you gain BRs or how quickly you gain stats/how many stats you gain? ::So it's probably best to edit out the part about XBOX achievements since one of the most annoying achievements to complete was the all quests one which, glancing through this guide, there's no mention of that particular quest that's easy to miss. So listing anything about things to do in an XBOX version just makes it ambiguous. Kaply 13:06, 24 April 2009 (UTC) :::Well, someone with half a brain who wants the 'all quests done' achievement can follow the guide up to nest of eagles, then do any and all quests that can be done up to that point, then do NoE and then play normally. This guide wasn't made specifically for people who want to get that specific achievement - it just makes getting it a lot easier if you follow the guide. It's actual purpose is to point out that gaining levels is detrimental in this game (which is a bit counterintuitive - I was certain that higher level = better loot/arts/more damage done) and outlines ways to delay BR gains as much as possible. Even if you only follow half of it, you should still be well below the BR I was at NoE (47 I think, playing normally - chaining, doing side quests, rare hunting, clearing mobs for captures/mats, etc.) Lancelot1 16:04, 24 April 2009 (UTC) ::::Except you need more than a brain to be clairvoyant. No way to know about the issues with obtaining the achievement. You make mention of the series of quests even though your guide stops before the series of quests starts.Kaply 17:16, 24 April 2009 (UTC) :It's not my guide, I'm merely reviewing it & cleaning it up. As per the issues with the achievement, again, that's not the purpose of the guide. I'm pretty certain the guide doesn't imply at any point that you should ignore all other side quests. People who have finished the game, and are on this wiki reading this guide probably know that they can't do some quests after leaving the aqueducts. And if the guide stops before the series of quests starts, what's the problem? You follow the guide, even to the T, and then do the quests. I'm probably missing the point here, if there even is one. @ anon below: I have no idea who or what that Clock is. I'll delete it, since you don't need absolutely every leader in the game anyways, unless you're min/maxing.. to the max? In which case you can probably take the time to go to every building in every sector of every town and check if there's a new quest after you do every quest/mission. Lancelot1 17:58, 24 April 2009 (UTC) New unique leader? I'm pretty sure it's a typo but new unique leaders "Clock"? Some things you may consider to add from my low BR playthrough experience I'm trying to not spoil anything here and chose my words carefully, but there's still some very minor spoilers here so read at your own risk. *** *** During my first play through, I got to BR 32 and found myself in no position to beat disc 1 end boss, I grinded some more to 38 and after 5 tries I beat it only to find myself going nowhere as I was soundly beaten again by you-know-who. It was around the time I was grinding for the boss did I find out about the whole BR business, I cleared all the creeps in the dungeons during my first play through and I realized my stats were gimped. I aborted it and started anew. This time keeping my BR low and only fight bosses in storyline and optional bosses, I cleared the first disc at br 13 (felt like I could have done so at 11 but w/e). Interestingly, I was intent on finishing all the quests in the game but the walk through page here on the Last Remnant wiki only listed 6 quests as must-completes before disc 2 arrives, it has since expanded to cover all the missable quests as reflected on your guide. I was well into the bases before I finally realized that those quests were gone for good (I had clinged to the hope that after the bases I would get those quests back). But beating the bosses with low BR can be frustratingly hard I had to often try 8 or 10 times before I finally get lucky AND get it right so I didn't restart this time. In the end I did every sidequest I could do except the fallen (that one is absurd) and finished the game at BR 38. (after at least 10 tries, but yeah, I did it) There are some key things here I discovered that are essential to getting through the low BR boss fights. Some are these are already covered but others are not. 1. Save very often. I played on PC and I pretty much saved whenever I got to a new area. You should save in different slots as well as you will need to back out sometimes for various reasons and you don't want to run back from deep into the dungeon all the way to world map. 2. Read maps. Some of the most useful resources you can find here on Last Remnant wiki made possible by contributing users are the dungeon maps. These maps are very accurate, detailed and contain minimal spoilers. They point out the shortest and clearest way to the bosses who are usually located in the deepest part of the dungeon. The loots are also listed in detail. You should glance through them before you formulate a path to find out where the key plot/quest items and the morsels are if they are present at all. Make sure you get those, most other items can be safely ignored in disc 1/early disc 2 as they are mostly replaceable if you are not into crafting. 3. Running dungeons while avoiding creeps. You should have formulated a path now, use your map and remember what the minimap looked like, now run it and check your minimap often, the game is paused when you do so. Most creeps are slower or on par with you and they are not hard to run by at all. For creeps that run slightly faster than you, pay attention to the top right corner of your HUD when you are running and you should be fine. Some of the faster creeps turn very slowly, use that to your advantage, observe before you try to runby, preferably run past in the direction he's not looking and he will waste time turning around. The real challenges are presented by creeps that run fast and turn fast, such as spiders and vultures. Understand once they are close to you, they will "thrust" to you during which time they can not change directions. So once they begin that motion you should be changing directions so you can earn yourself a little space and time. 3a. Master timeshifts. This deserves its own little section for its immense usefulness. First of all you won't be needing this if the creeps you are trying to run by are not fast or numerous. While in timeshift, creeps in a reasonably big radius around you will be highlighted and chase you once the timeshift is over. Avoid that if you can, but often times there simply isn't enough space for that. To deal with this problem. You need to keep running, you will outrun them with your combined real time running and timeshift running. Aim for an exit to a different area or some teleporter/elevator. Also, if you initiate a second timeshift without touching anybody, the creeps that are chasing you from the first one will stop chasing, although this is rarely applicable. You also stop being chased if you engage in a fight, this is useful when a boss is surrounded by regular creeps, simply timeshift into him and you wont need to dodge the creeps at all. 4. Combat over Mystic. For most characters that can train in anything (ie. they start with fairly balanced strength and intelligence stats), it's better to have them train combat arts. Note that every leader can learn all the combat arts, so even for the characters that start with significantly more intelligence than strength, you can train them up in combat arts without worrying about losing out on anything. On the other hand the only character that can learn every mystic art is Rush, and if you want a mystic art squad, it's best to consult their pages here on TLR wiki and find out what they can learn, the only set of arts that are really irreplaceable are wards and arcana, the latter can be substituted by David somewhat and you find out about that in section 6. 5. Big unions. In low BR, try to stuff your leaders into unions of 4 and 5s. As an example, if you can have 18 leaders, a 5 union setup of 4-4-4-3-3 is a big no-no, they will get KOed too easily, you will need 4 unions of 5-5-4-4, 3 unions of 5-5-5 is not a good idea either and you will find out why in the next section. 6. Battles. First of all, you will need vilification herbs as soon as possible. Ideally you will want at least one vilification herb user (or other forms of revival) in each union, you will be able to do this in early disc 2 at the latest. The earliest party member you can recruit for sure that has this skill in Darien, who has an easy side quest and appears fairly early in the storyline, all you need is the gold to hire him. Now stock up the 2 ingredients you need for it and head into battles. Most bosses will be able to KO your unions with their best arts in 1 or 2 turns and you will have casualty in almost every tough boss fights. Clear the small regular unions first, don't even bother attacking the boss, let alone multi deadlocking him. This is generally the hardest part and the first 2-6 turns will decide whether your entire party is KOed or will you be able to clear the regular unions and win the fight against lone boss now that you have survived their combined onslaught. Make sure David leads a union, his unique art is one of the luck factors you will be counting on in a large battle, it only comes out when there are enough enemy unions on the field (greater than 5 although I could be wrong) You are guaranteed one in the nest of eagles (at least I was). Ok, so now that the boss is alone. He can deadlock 3 unions and any further ones will be able to flank him, you will almost never have enough unions for rear assault or even massive strike. Putting all your unions on a tough boss is bad. Revive as soon as any unions are down is generally the best course of action. Of especially important note is that any unions that's deadlocking an enemy will get the first priority to act if you choose to have them go revive a KOed union. Very very few actions have a better priority and you will know them when you see them. Bosses can multi deadlock unions but you don't have to let them do so, keep the strongest union with the most hp deadlocking him and the rest of your party will be safe unless he uses an AOE, if you have 3 unions (or 2 as is often the case) healing/reviving you can keep it up for as long as you have herbs and other tools for revival. For some of the bosses in this game I had no less than 30 revivals (combined item arts and mystic arts) to beat them, everyone just died over and over and I kept bringing them back. This is the most potent weapon you will find in the game. BR major flaw of TLR ? What is the idea behind the BR system? What is the purpose of raising boss difficulty by the factor that does not represent player strength? It would make perfect sense if BR was the actual mirror of your strength, as it is now - having low BR is nothing else as abusing this system. I think it just imbalances the game and gives it unnecessary complications. I would like someone to point out the advantages of this system over the classic levels? User:ComplexxL9 :Actually, if they wanted to design a system that gets harder the further you progress through the game, this isn't a bad one. If you look at it that way the only flaw it has is the ability to dodge mobs and thus stay at low BR. Drake178 19:44, 23 May 2009 (UTC) :You can easily do that with classic level system User:ComplexxL9 Revised Guide OK, so this guide has annoyed me to no end because of how badly it's written. I'm definitely of the opinion of keeping personal opinions out of guides unless they add something constructive, which this version doesn't really do. There's also a bunch of grammatical mistakes, random capitalization and I don't think it goes into enough detail/gives enough warning for certain things. It also doesn't extend that far past the Nest of Eagles, so those interested in keeping BR low further in the game may not know of a few tricks or approaches to some fights (not that there are that many, but some can be cut a little shorter for lower gains). Here's my proposed revision. I kept a similar TOC, but expanded on the walkthrough. If no one has any objections, I will replace it with mine after running through a few more checks myself. Zephyr 07:34, December 24, 2011 (UTC) :Replaced. If anyone has any objections on the revised guide, put them here or my talk page. Zephyr 19:16, January 12, 2012 (UTC)